ACCBoards

A little grumpy up there in the windy city.

I honestly don't think they should be throwing Boozer under the bus. He is a nice player and honestly one of the few dookies I can stand - relatively. He has had a nifty NBA career despite his time at dook

Nice player? Chokes in the big game. Flagrant foul artist. Heck with him.

(05-28-2011 10:31 AM)rickheel Wrote: [ -> ]Nice player? Chokes in the big game. Flagrant foul artist. Heck with him.

that is a strong point.

He sat the entire 4th quarter in the most important game of the year.

Boozer is a prototypical selfish crybaby dookie arsehole, in the Laettner, Maggette, McBob, Reddick mold.

To Reddick's credit, since leaving dook, he has unlearned most of the primadonna crap K taught him, and through hard work and unselfishness has made himself into a very good team player who helps his team.

Boozer's has remained a self-important jackarse thug who epitomizes the reason dook players don't win NBA championships. Plain and simple, most of them don't make their teams better through their unselfish play, and they don't make their teams better through unselfish play because K teaches his blue-chip players to be selfish players.

For all the hordes of dookies currently in the NBA, we once again have the same scenario that has been the norm since K took over the reins at dook; at least one Tar Heel playing for an NBA ring in the finals, with no dookies in sight.

This season makes 22 of the 31 seasons since K took over at dook that there has been at least one Tar Heel playing in the NBA finals, compared to 4 in which one of K's players did so, and none of K's players has ever played a significant role in a team actually winning an NBA championship. That's zero, folks. Nada. Zilch. Zippo.

And here I thought he was the head coach of the Duke Blue Devils, and not an NBA developmental squad.

(05-28-2011 02:21 PM)The Ghost of Hessianwolf Wrote: [ -> ]And here I thought he was the head coach of the Duke Blue Devils, and not an NBA developmental squad.

I understood that college prepares you for a professional career, but what do I know.

Lifted this from IC

--

Found some info on the Internet. The question is "how many UNC players won or coached an NBA championship?"


"This list is players and head coaches only:

Billy Cunningham (76ers 1967)
Charlie Scott (Celtics 1976)
Mitch Kupchak (Bullets 1976, Lakers 1982, 1985)
Tommy LaGarde (Supersonics 1979)
Bob McAdoo (Lakers 1982, 1985)
Bobby Jones (76ers 1983)
James Worthy (Lakers 1985, 1987, 1988)
Michael Jordan (Bulls 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
Scott Williams (Bulls 1991, 1992, 1993)
Kenny Smith (Rockets 1994, 1995)
Pete Chilcutt (Rockets 1995)
Rick Fox (Lakers 2000, 2001, 2002)
Rasheed Wallace (Pistons 2004)

Coaches:
Billy Cunningham (76ers 1983)
Larry Brown (Pistons 2004)"

I didn't realize Kupchack has 3 (3!!!) rings with 2 different teams. As a player.

Those Lakers, Bulls and Rockets did OK with Carolina guys.

Rick Fox has three, too

I always really liked Scott Williams and thought he was under the radar.

(05-28-2011 02:13 PM)jws Wrote: [ -> ]For all the hordes of dookies currently in the NBA, we once again have the same scenario that has been the norm since K took over the reins at dook; at least one Tar Heel playing for an NBA ring in the finals, with no dookies in sight.

This season makes 22 of the 31 seasons since K took over at dook that there has been at least one Tar Heel playing in the NBA finals, compared to 4 in which one of K's players did so, and none of K's players has ever played a significant role in a team actually winning an NBA championship. That's zero, folks. Nada. Zilch. Zippo.

there is absolutely no question that Dean and Roy have had way, way more NBA talent than K, and way more players of all-star caliber. yet at the same time he has as many titles as both in less time. I don't understand why a Carolina fan would bring this up. wait a minute, let me rephrase - what I mean to say is that it doesn't make amy sense for a Carolina fan to open this door. I understand why this one would.

(05-28-2011 05:33 PM)Supersport Wrote: [ -> ]there is absolutely no question that Dean and Roy have had way, way more NBA talent than K, and way more players of all-star caliber. yet at the same time he has as many titles as both in less time. I don't understand why a Carolina fan would bring this up. wait a minute, let me rephrase - what I mean to say is that it doesn't make amy sense for a Carolina fan to open this door. I understand why this one would.

I wonder how many UNC would have if there were series for the champ vs. one and done.

well whatever.

and I don't feel like listing a bunch of dookies - but 'Dean and Roy' have had "way, way" more talent than rat? couple or three burger boys have gone to the gothic wunderland

I think if you look at the NBA draft picks and their places in the draft UNC comes out ahead, but that is simply because of talent? Maybe a few other things factors in? And those NBA guys seem to know what they are doing drafting Heels, judging by all those rings listed up there.

I would expect that most, if not all of those listed would say they have learned a thing or two while at Carolina.

(05-28-2011 05:33 PM)Supersport Wrote: [ -> ]there is absolutely no question that Dean and Roy have had way, way more NBA talent than K, and way more players of all-star caliber. yet at the same time he has as many titles as both in less time. I don't understand why a Carolina fan would bring this up. wait a minute, let me rephrase - what I mean to say is that it doesn't make amy sense for a Carolina fan to open this door. I understand why this one would.

Well that's a mighty inconvenient way to look at it, supersport. You almost might wonder why Carolina hasn't won more NCAA titles, what with all of the elite NBA talent that's passed through their program.

(05-28-2011 09:03 PM)The Ghost of Hessianwolf Wrote: [ -> ]Well that's a mighty inconvenient way to look at it, supersport. You almost might wonder why Carolina hasn't won more NCAA titles, what with all of the elite NBA talent that's passed through their program.

right. No doubt every Carolina alum in the NBA would have been just as successful getting drafted out of high school.

(05-28-2011 05:33 PM)Supersport Wrote: [ -> ]there is absolutely no question that Dean and Roy have had way, way more NBA talent than K...

Yes, if I were a dook apologist, I'd probably be trying to change the subject, just like you are.

And, of course, there's no question that the University of New Mexico has had way, way more NBA talent than K, because they've had multiple players contribute to NBA championship winning teams while K has produced zilch. And, of course, there's no question that the mighty Colorado Buffaloes have had way, way more NBA talent than K, because they too have had multiple players contribute to NBA championship teams, while K has produced nada. And, of course...well, actually, if we look at the actual real world facts, there's no coach and no program in the entire country, or in the entire history of college basketball, who's produced fewer players who've significantly contributed to winning an NBA championship than Mike Krzyzewski.

Man, those Ivy League teams can recruit, eh?

(05-28-2011 09:03 PM)The Ghost of Hessianwolf Wrote: [ -> ]Well that's a mighty inconvenient way to look at it, supersport. You almost might wonder why Carolina hasn't won more NCAA titles, what with all of the elite NBA talent that's passed through their program.

One might, if one were ignorant enough.

I do find this argument interesting.

So Carolina has failed because its only been to dozens of final fours and has a passable regular season track record because its alumnae are so successful in the NBA.

mmmkay


edit - whoops UNC has only been to 18 final fours. my bad.

(05-29-2011 01:18 AM)jws Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, if I were a dook apologist, I'd probably be trying to change the subject, just like you are.

Raising talent level is not an apology, it's merely pointing out that your ideology has once again eclipsed your capability to draw a rational conclusion. Talent level is however directly related to the subject you raised.

In this case you're trying to draw some correlation between K's coaching ability and his players' NBA title contributions. First, it,s irrelevant to his evaluation as a college coach. It's two different games. NBA teams also enjoy the ability to keep key players for up to 20 years, which skews any correlation of lesser players, themselves contributions, let alone their college coaches. Any competent guard that could hit a jumpshot could have filled Steve Kerrs role, for instance, but nobody could replace Jordan.

Which brings us to a factor that does correlate to college coaching, which is the amount of talent a coach has had compared to his titles. Carolina's talent level hs been at least double any program's, including UCLA's, yet they have far fewer titles than UCLA, and programs with much lesstalent have won s many titles.

It's more striking for Roy than Dean. Dean had three NBA all-stars including MJ and Worthy, two incomparable players, not to mention mere mcD AA's Perkins and Doh, on his first title team, but only one solid NBA player on his next. Roy, otoh, has had three or four lottery picks on his two title teams, and next year is more talented than either of those.
Of course there are other factors, but talent is a primary factor, and results vs. talent is certainly a significant measure. I can see why you would want to attempt to deny that though.

Quote:And, of course, there's no question that the University of New Mexico has had way, way more NBA talent than K, because they've had multiple players contribute to NBA championship winning teams while K has produced zilch. And, of course, there's no question that the mighty Colorado Buffaloes have had way, way more NBA talent than K, because they too have had multiple players contribute to NBA championship teams, while K has produced nada. And, of course...well, actually, if we look at the actual real world facts, there's no coach and no program in the entire country, or in the entire history of college basketball, who's produced fewer players who've significantly contributed to winning an NBA championship than Mike Krzyzewski.

Man, those Ivy League teams can recruit, eh?

no correlation. again, NBA teams tend to hang on to "franchise" players, the ones who determine championships. the college source of role players is, as you inadvertantly showed, irrelevant, and virtually random.

now, the college source fo key players has some correlation. Wooden and Dean produced several. any NBA team would do well any year to look at Carolina's roster, because there is nowhere except Kentucky recently where you had a better chance to find a future pro star

can someone breakdown what the H supersport is talking about??

Are you saying UNC should bag scholarships and recruiting to show how good a coaching staff we have?

Seems to me recruiting is at least a minor part of Division 1 college coaching, but maybe I have it all backwards.

Wait - I think I got it. All UNC's talent was wasted in college because the only metric of college success is winning the NCAA tourney, and since UNC has done that only 5 times in 18 final fours, they have squandered all the talent that went on to win something like 35 rings in the NBA - not to mention the hundreds of players that have had successful lives in and out of basketball. Vince Carter doesn't have a ring, but he is kinda popular. Too bad he went to Carolina, maybe if he went straight to the league he would have been more successful?

Its a shame to have to live like Sport. His teams SUCK so he has to jump on the bandwagon of others.

(05-29-2011 08:28 AM)rickheel Wrote: [ -> ]Its a shame to have to live like Sport. His teams SUCK so he has to jump on the bandwagon of others.

you need to look in the mirror. your primary purpose here seems to be to find some opponents misfortune to cheer about. now, that must suck

(05-29-2011 06:44 AM)wrongtimezone Wrote: [ -> ]can someone breakdown what the H supersport is talking about??

Are you saying UNC should bag scholarships and recruiting to show how good a coaching staff we have?

the thread was started with a misguided attempt to criticize K, and then compounded with jws even more preposterous attempt to add to it.

I'm just providing some rational perspective.

For instance, compare the NBA prospects of the '09 Carolina title team and the '10 Duke title team.

what conclusions can you draw about the college coaching job done by the respective coach, and how on earth can the respective NBA prospects more flattering to Roy than K?

why bring it up?

(05-29-2011 10:00 AM)Supersport Wrote: [ -> ]you need to look in the mirror. your primary purpose here seems to be to find some opponents misfortune to cheer about. now, that must suck

Its about a rivalry you idiot. I guess the fact that you have to suck up to dook must really chap your ass.

(05-29-2011 10:11 AM)rickheel Wrote: [ -> ]Its about a rivalry you idiot. I guess the fact that you have to suck up to dook must really chap your ass.

you're just too easy. can somebody else jump in here?

one thing that amazes me is how some Carolina fans are compelled to do this stuff instead of spending their time on the incredible fortune their team has

(05-29-2011 11:33 AM)Supersport Wrote: [ -> ]one thing that amazes me is how some Carolina fans are compelled to do this stuff instead of spending their time on the incredible fortune their team has

no doubt jws will show up soon and start throwing hand grenades, but I'll step in for a moment

I'm not sure "fortune" is the word. That implies luck, and we have not had a whole lot of that. 5 for 18 in final fours tells you something right there.

Carolina attempts to create consistency which is maddeningly difficult in this day.

dook as a program under K is obviously up there in best all time air. and now that he has the national team experience he really has diversified his style in ways I never expected.

Roy is as stubborn as a mule, and sometimes I wish he would change his offensive patterns, but his record speaks.

and again - when you have the talent THAT HE RECRUITED ON PURPOSE he can keep running the primary and secondary break down your throat and there is not a whole you can do about it even if you try, and I think we are going to see a LOT of that this season now that Kendall is the man. (next season's Carolina team is going to be a little nuts)