Oh yea?? When did that happen?
I have a real problem with watching this guy lie through his teeth.
Healthcare passed against the wishes of the American people. Against the wishes does not mean the bulk of the people in this country don't feel healthcare is a problem. It means many don't feel a humongous health care plan was a solution.
Prepare to open your wallets like you never have before. Prepare for your friends who own small businesses to fire as many employees as possible or to shut down because they can't afford to stay open. Get your hand outta your pocket and hold it WAY out to make sure you get your share.
Limosine liberals. Obama leads the whole lot of them. Get off your high horse and quite telling me what to do with my money. You should've cleaned up the Medicare and Medicaid mess before you created a bigger steaming pile for everyone to deal with and pay for.
yeah, it really bites when the richest country in the world starts caring for its citizen's health rather than blowing up peopleon the other side of the world.
please.
(03-22-2010 12:21 AM)Goldfish Wrote: [ -> ]OH please spare me!
ok. you are spared.
(03-22-2010 12:14 AM)wrongtimezone Wrote: [ -> ]yeah, it really bites when the richest country in the world starts caring for its citizen's health rather than blowing up peopleon the other side of the world.
please.
Spend like there's no tomorrow... and there won't be!
(03-22-2010 12:14 AM)wrongtimezone Wrote: [ -> ]yeah, it really bites when the richest country in the world starts caring for its citizen's health rather than blowing up peopleon the other side of the world.
please.
The "BITE" is going to be out of YOUR @$$ in taxes. This country has just been SCREWED ROYALLY and when you finally wake up to the damage it's going to do, it'll be too late.
Welcome to SOCIALIST AMERICA!! The GOVERNMENT now owns your @$$ and every other part of you. Don't expect to make your own decisions for much longer because a bureaucrat will be doing that for you.... right after their 4 hour coffee break.
Why does this need to be done in the middle of the night? If it all is open, above board and following established rules, why hide the voting for late on a Sunday night?
Armageddon gets passed by Congress once every generation or so. Centenarians get to see the whole country annihilated, like, 5 or 6 times.
THIS TIME IT'S WORSE!!
It's always worse
THIS TIME! 
Krauthammer predicts a national sales tax.
Yippeeeee...
(03-22-2010 02:32 AM)Goldfish Wrote: [ -> ]Bennies, anyone? How about big pharm, insurance company and device manufacturers for $600, Alex?
Ain't that a surprise. What else did you expect? The healthcare industry probably got most, if not all, of what it has been paying for. You can call the "healthcare reform bill" many things, but mostly it provides a bigger market for the healthcare industry.
On the plus side, at least we won't be hearing about the "healthcare reform bill" ad nauseum anymore. Now it will be "finance reform".
What I hear against making any changes is the mantra, "I got mine, Jack."
Yes, most of us are covered through employer benefits plans. Things are just fine for us.
Unless we are laid off.
Or unless we work for an employer whose plan is practically worthless.
Or we get sick and establish a history of a "pre-existing condition."
But most of us, the majority of us, do not need any change. Especially if that change means a little less for those who have to give to those who don't.
The opponents to health care have appealed to the worst instincts of a democracy, the instincts that suggest to the mob that rather than tighten their belts they should just eat Ralph for dinner since they can out vote him.
(03-22-2010 04:19 AM)Tenmile Wrote: [ -> ]What I hear against making any changes is the mantra, "I got mine, Jack."
Yes, most of us are covered through employer benefits plans. Things are just fine for us.
Unless we are laid off.
Or unless we work for an employer whose plan is practically worthless.
Or we get sick and establish a history of a "pre-existing condition."
But most of us, the majority of us, do not need any change. Especially if that change means a little less for those who have to give to those who don't.
The opponents to health care have appealed to the worst instincts of a democracy, the instincts that suggest to the mob that rather than tighten their belts they should just eat Ralph for dinner since they can out vote him.
You're a good soul TenMile and very idealistic. There is nothing wrong with helping people and what you outline above. The problem is, is that this begins the foot-in-the-door. Its like income tax being passed and started in 1913. One page, two page form max. Simple stuff. Then it grew, it grew, it grew. Just like the "New Deal". Social programs to get us out of the depression. Only problem is, as the depression ended, the social programs kept growing, and growing, and growing.
Unless this reversed by some mechanism, this "bill" sets the stage for a huge redistribution of wealth and greatly diminishes the principle of people being responsible for themselves. It is liberalism at its cancerous worst. The liberal dems have done nothing but set up tax dollars of hard working people to buy the votes of all those that would rather suck their lives from the government trough. Personal incentive just took a big hit.
This is a very, very scary time in this nation.
By the way: FWIW here's who voted how:
>>>El Stinko Linko<<<
Quote:Prepare to open your wallets like you never have before. Prepare for your friends who own small businesses to fire as many employees as possible or to shut down because they can't afford to stay open. Get your hand outta your pocket and hold it WAY out to make sure you get your share.
Well, Goldie, like so many around the country, I'm not at all happy with this legislation. A few select parts of it, yes. Overall? No. But with what I see daily at work I think this bill is going to mean much for people who don't think health insurance reform is needed.
And I'm going to tell all of you this; with the dramatic increases in the Public Assistance programs your taxes are going to rise and rise and rise anyway!
Many of the people posting here at TS are employed by or live in an area where there's an abundance of government jobs. At the moment the Federal government isn't making drastic cuts in the workforce and definitely isn't closing down. There is also a mighty fine insurance program available to government employees. And because the government will continue as "business as usual", the peripheral employers (PACs, study groups, legal and lobby organizations, even printers and caterers and limo drivers) will continue without much pause.
Contrast the nearly secure government and government-related employment with what's going on most every place else in the country. The collapse of the housing industry and the stock market (for whatever reasons you want to use) has put a dent in this country like we haven't seen in decades. Small business is dying because that's the first place people without jobs cut back. Large business is dying because people don't have the income to purchase that new car or "home theater". Towns and cities are making cuts because the tax base is shrinking. Foreclosed home owners aren't going to pay their real estate tax no matter what. Once "secure" careers (teachers, cops, nurses, even physicians) are being eliminated.
Bankruptcy and foreclosure rates continue to be quite high. Jobs created, even jobs brought back into this country, will not be enough or at the same pay scale to help a very large portion of the population that is now scrambling like mad to keep their financial head about water. These same people will benefit from this insurance bill no matter how much we as a country complain about it, complain that it's going to "cost us", complain that the US has become a "welfare state" (as if it isn't already).
Whether people are participating in this new federal program or are accepted by the individual state's assistance programs yes, we're going to see taxes go up.
The question becomes: do we provide some sort of health insurance program which requires a bit of participation by the enrollee or do we allow people to receive public assistance with no participation requirement?
Or maybe even do we as a country abandon our principles and allow fellow citizens to sicken and die when there could have been an alternative?
I don't question there is a need for reform. I don't question that individuals should have care if they need. However, the "one fell swoop" legislation that passed isn't the answer. I've read the thing. There is no way to follow it, there is NO WAY the people who wrote it or voted on it even have a clue what it will lead to.
I resent Congress deciding what is good for me and my family without considering the wishes of the people who put them in office. Now we sit with a huge piece of "law" that will be signed tomorrow. But wait - we have to get an "adjustment" bill through the Senate to fix this one because they rushed it through. So if the Senate balks, it can then be blamed on politics and the Pubs. Forget that an unread, unbelievably huge piece of legislation went through with a bunch of crap in it. That is unacceptable to me.
If I'm working and I choose to do a half-assed job, I get called on it. Why isn't that the same for Congress? This finagling provides those that voted against their constituents an alternative when campaigning in the fall. They can sugar coat their lies with a twisted truth.
I'm not interested in paying more taxes. I pay enough as do everyone in the middle income bracket. It's TOO much and yet, here we go again dipping into the pockets of individuals who don't have anything else to give.
I have a vested interest in this healthcare debate because of my condition. My husband is a federal employee and we're sure to be the first on the chopping block. So will the govt decide how often I get my marker tests? Will they decide if I get my Tamoxifen? I have chosen to purchase my own insurance so I'm not on the government's back financially. My plan will be one of the first to go. I pay a premium to have good insurance and I do that willingly. This choice won't be mine anymore.
In other parts of the country, there will be clinics run by HHS. Everything will be run by HHS and by federal and state employees. The reason Obama wanted this to get through was for jobs. Good idea huh? Except there is no conceivable way to pay for it. There's a bunch of other crap buried in this bill that will make things even worse for the American people.
So next time around, will I be able to choose the Doctor who has treated me for 2 years? Or will I have to choose someone unknown to me and IMO, untrustworthy?
This country has no principles.
We are a welfare state. We just became more of one. I'm sticking my hand out. In this day and age, that's the only way to get yours.
The only good part about this whole thing is that many of the DAs who voted for this will be gone this fall after they don't get re-elected.
Back room last minute deals. Selling the soul for a "YES" vote.
Nope....Politics as usual.
Pelosi, followed closely by Rahm, make me wretch! And don't sweat it. If I get to feeling too badly, I'll pay my OWN way at the E.R., thank you.
Stood up on that stage after the vote, all smug. Nancy looked like she needed a cigarette. And probably did after what she, and the rest of O.'s minions did to us with passage of this garbage.
And it IS garbage.
Obama=Scary. I can't wait until his term is over. Of course when it is he will probably control everyone lives and tell then what to do and what not to do and etc. Just like N. Korea. It won't surprise me if Obama, Bin Laden, N. Korea, Iran and all of those low lives that they are best friends with each other.
(03-22-2010 01:13 AM)Stampeding Terp Wrote: [ -> ]Welcome to SOCIALIST AMERICA!!
it is, and it's due totally to the conservative economic policies that sent millions of jobs to China, allowed bankers to rob millions more of us and created this economic disaster.
now those peole who've seen their livlihood cut out from under them expect government to take care of them when tehy had perfectly good jobs
there could not be a better plan to achieve socialism in America than "conservative" economics
Democracy worked when the republicans stood by and did nothing for years about anything. In '08, they got tossed on their collective keisters.
The liberals are about to learn (again) the same lesson this November. Using healthcare as a foundation and excuse to raise taxes, shelter and buy votes from the lower class, under the guise of "will of the people" is going to bite the democrats this fall.
NAFTA happened. 'Nuff saYed.
A truly sad day for the Republic. Oh well.
I don't know if this is a good bill or not. I do know that reform was desperately needed and hundreds of millions of dollars were spent to try and stop reform. This could have been a MUCH better bill. The Republicans fought this bill tooth and nail and made no attempts to improve it. They just wanted to kill it. When they were in power for 8 years, they did NOTHING to address the health care problems as costs spiraled out of control.There was little real debate about the merits of the health care bill. Instead, we heard the lunatic claims of deaht panels, a government takeover of health care, government funding of abortion, etc. Everything but an intelligent discussion on how to control the rising costs of health care. I oppose abortion, but I'm absolutely sick of having it interjected into every issue for political reasons!This bill does nothing to change the law regarding the government's funding of abortion! These folks make me sick! The lack of real debate about the merits of this bill and the unwillingness to even consider compromise, was a disgrace!
"A health care debate marked by episodes of ugly rhetoric took another turn for the worse late Sunday night when a voice on the Republican side of the House shouted “baby killer” at Rep. Bart Stupak.
Stupak – a leader among anti-abortion Democrats – was speaking at the time in opposition to a Republican motion to recommit that would have added the text of the so-called Stupak Amendment to the Democrats’ reconciliation bill.
Reporters in the House chamber said the “baby killer” shout seemed to come from a group of lawmakers that included Rep. John Campbell (R-Calif.), but he said it wasn’t him. “I don't think it’s appropriate at all," Campbell told POLITICO."
Read more:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/031...z0iuyJ53AD
Tim, I think that's a doggone good summation of the situation. Neither side is "pure" here. Neither side has been "pure" for positive ages. The whole proposal turned into nothing but partisan bickering without substance. Face it, folks. That's been the situation for a heck of a long time, not just now that the Dems are "in power". Many chances for positive change have been passed by by both parties over the years. And just now, after the NCLB act for example, one particular party is claiming this bill is sending American on the final leg of the journey to Socialism??
Yes, there'll be changes with the mid-term elections. What's going to matter most is what gets accomplished after those elections! Will we see a strong push to present legislation which will make this bill nearly ineffective? Will we see legislation to repeal NCLB? Will there actually be the changes made which the mid-term candidates from the opposition are hollering that they're going to make? Or will it all be once again politics as usual.....lots of hot air to get votes and nothing else?
Aside to Goldie and anyone else dealing with a chronic condition in the family:
If you were covered by Public Assistance not only would you receive the necessary treatment (chemo, dialysis, IV therapy for such as RSV) you would receive that treatment for as long as you were on the face of the earth at absolutely NO cost to you or your family.
I process more than a few patients every month who are receiving treatments such as those mentioned about, some monthly bills running nearly $50,000 per month for inoperable and incurable tumors.
Despite the scares from the opposition, you would continue to receive these treatments under the federal plan and, what's probably more important, persons currently holding private insurance would be allowed to participate in that (hated!) "public option" clause so not only would you continue the medications, you would be able to cancel your current commercial insurance and eliminate that "lifetime maximum", any deductible or any co-payment over (I think it's) $50 per month.
Think about that a moment. How much money would you be saving per month with the burden of premium solely on your shoulders? Then comapre that to the relatively small increase in taxes per person because the increases in cost are spread over umpteen million Americans. What's financially better for your immediate grocery/Visa/GMAC/FirstBank monthly outlay?
All that said.......
I'm still not very happy with this thing or the way it came about.
We have no principles, everything will change with this government takeover under which you can't choose your doctor, our taxes will skyrocket, we'll all have to join the Red Army to improve the unemployment stats, while Obama pals around with terrorists. What a GREAT bill!